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Bad shudder part II


 
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toothbrush
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 17:44    Post subject: Bad shudder part II Reply with quote

Hi all,

Maybe you remember, a while ago I posted about a bad shudder ('84 SJ410), around 40-50 kmh, which decreases again when you pull through, as it were. Well, thinking it was the transfer case (because relatively independent of gear) I replaced that (don't worry, had a spare lying around), but the problem didn't change at all. This made me think it was the gearbox, but a gearbox mechanic I went to was 99% sure the shudder was too "metallic" to be the gearbox. Well, I did some experiments on my own, and the symptoms were such:

- With the transfer case in neutral and the car standing still, you can engage the normal gearbox. When doing this, the vibration (which sounds exactly like a mild version of the one at 40-50) can clearly be heard, getting worse through the gears, being the worst in 5. This seems to me a worn U joint maybe on the prop from gearbox to Tcase?
- I crawled under the car while this vibration could be heard, and it sounded like it was coming equally clearly from the gearbox & Tcase. Weird??

How do you diagnose U joint hassles? When stationary I can't really feel play, and I'm not sure what I'm looking for. My dad thought maybe the chain in the transfer case was loose, and rattling against the housing...

What now? I really don't know where to start troubleshooting, and my tools are limited. Any suggestions? Hopefully someone has had & solved this problem Razz, though having looked at the rest of this subforum I don't see anything that sounds like my problem.
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zocko
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Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 19:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

have you tried greasing the g/box propshaft?

look on it to see if theres a grease point on the uj and see if it needs greasing?

it might be your problem but without seeing it, its difficult to say
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RSi
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 20:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried removing the prop yet and driving without it.
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toothbrush
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 21:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

About greasing the prop: good point, I'll check. Can't believe that'll relieve such a harsh shudder though, but I haven't tried yet, so can't complain to start with Smile

About removing props: well, in t-case neutral, the front and rear props aren't moving (stating the obvious, sorry). So yes, I guess I could try removing the gearbox-tcase prop, could see what it does then... Aside from that though, I have freewheeling hubs, so it's not the front prop, and I have tried driving without the rear prop (in front-wheel drive indeed). That still shuddered the same way.

My money is on the U joints being shot indeed. Apart from taking the part to a garage, how can one ascertain whether a Ujoint is gone or not? Might try removing the mid shaft if no one says that's a very bad idea (can't really imagine why if the engine isn't revved much - right?)...
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zocko
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 0:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you run it in gear with no t/fer prop in place, youll throw your gear oil out of the g/box and prob fry it.

do you have any play in any of the ujs?
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toothbrush
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 16:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well just as well I didn't try then, couldn't get at it without removing the transfer case, and didn't have time or space for that... Felt the U joints though, and to my feeling there was pretty much no play... Not an expert here, but a shudder that bad one would think you should feel play in the U joints. Now I'm really puzzled, and I'm reluctant to go to a garage as I'm not sure how competent/interested they'd be, plus there's the cash issue (or lack of it Razz).

More info though: turns out there's a 1.3L block (probably from SJ413) in there, looked up the serial number, as I noticed the gearbox mountings had been (unprofessionally) moved backward. Could the shorter driveshaft from gearbox to T case cause such a shudder? (as a result of imbalance probably)
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zocko
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 22:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

in a word yes.

can you see why the gearbox has been moved backward at all?
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toothbrush
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 15:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only guess about reasons for moving the gearbox, I suppose because the 1.3 is longer... The engine mounts seem original.

How would one then solve the issue, assuming it's prop imbalance? Would a 'normal' garage be able to balance shafts? I'm going to a garage for an opinion on Monday anyway, so we'll see.  Thanks for the insights! Hope it's fixable! :-/
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